Tableware Today Interview - Jim Shreve, Tim DeVine, Mark Brashear, & Sally Burnside
Jim Shreve made Baccarat hip. Now, he and his longtime partner, Mark Brashear, along with Sally Burnside, the former Baccarat sales V.P., intend to do the same for DeVine Corp., the 32-year-old distributor of elite European brands. You're invited to the opening!
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Congrats to you all. This is very exciting. Tim, we’ve known each other since before you started DeVine Corp., 32 years ago. You’ve been looking for the right opportunity to retire. TIM DEVINE: I started seriously exploring how I could transition about three years ago. I talked to various candidates, but the fit was never right. When I first met Jim Shreve years ago in Chris Rosse’s Atlanta showroom, I assumed he was the guy who did the displays because he was playing with the product. Who knew he was the CEO of Baccarat? I got to know Jim over the years, as he was positioning Baccarat in a great way. He often said he was envious of me running my own business when he bought product from me for his own entertaining. Jim was into my product way before he was into my company. We became friendly, and after he left Baccarat, it became clear he was interested in being in business for himself; the compatibility was obvious. When Jim and Mark expressed interest at the end of the summer, I realized the time was right. I wasn’t particularly itching to retire; I don’t have a lot of outside interests. I was happy doing what I was doing, but within ten minutes, I knew these were the right guys to take over the business. Jim and Mark are honorable guys. They know everybody and have great ready-to-wear contacts. They could head off in many different directions, and they’re filled with innovative ideas. And I had the pleasure of getting to know Sally during her tenure at Baccarat. Her people skills and eye for product impressed me greatly, and I think she rounds out their team nicely as they take DeVine Corp. into the next phase of development. DeVine Corp. provides them a solid stepping stone, a terrific infrastructure, and logistics. It’s a good springboard for wherever they want to take the operation. I’m sure they’ll move the company in new directions, with new gift categories; textiles are obvious given their diverse background. A lot of people will like working with them. I’ve been less inclined to build new brands over the last few years than to grow the brands I have. It’s been a steady, profitable business for 32 years that I created from scratch: everything from warehouse to computer systems to banking. By taking on DeVine Corp. as an operating business entity, Jim and Mark can concentrate on sales and marketing and products, not the administrative side of the business. I intend to work with them as long as they want, and our staff of 11 are staying on.
Jim, we got to know each other during your presidency at Baccarat. I was so impressed with the fabulous changes you instituted. Prior to that, your career was spent at elite fashion houses (Diesel, Façonnable) and retail (Nordstrom) where you met Mark. Mark, tabletop is a new opportunity for you. You spent decades as a top exec for first-class fashion brands (John Varvatos, Michael Kors, Hugo Boss). This is a terrific opportunity for you to work together in an industry you both love.
JIM SHREVE: We have a great mutual respect and respective strengths. At Baccarat, I didn’t know how to be a CEO, but since I lived with one, I observed and watched. Mark taught me many lessons indirectly and directly, and it’s exciting to be working together again. And even though Mark’s not been in the industry, we started collecting tableware 30 years ago. When this opportunity arose, it was ideal. We have such respect for Tim and his company. The seven years I was at Baccarat, he was a mentor and friend; extremely complimentary, ethical, straightforward. Tim is never anything but gracious, supportive, transparent, and trustworthy. His partners have great respect for him, and that’s a real validation.
MARK BRASHEAR: Jim and I have been together 31 years and we’ve shared a lot of life chapters and professional journeys. We worked together in France at Façonnable and that was a good education for both of us to discover what we’re good at and how we complement each other. In this new chapter, we’re at a different phase of life and excited to bring our backgrounds and tastes to lead our own business. Jim is an amazing team builder; I’m much more operations oriented. We’ll divide and conquer. I’ll run operations and Jim will handle product and marketing. And Sally will head up sales. Together, we have the necessary skill sets for a successful endeavor.
SALLY BURNSIDE: I have a long history with Mark and Jim; with Mark nearly ten years ago at Michael Kors when we both worked in menswear, and Jim more recently at Baccarat. Having the opportunity to join forces with both feels like a full circle career moment. In addition to a brilliant business mind, Mark is an extraordinary manager of people, and the impression he left on me as a leader is something that stayed very close to my heart over the years. I’ve been fortunate to call him mentor and friend for nearly a decade. He’s responsible for recommending me to Jim to lead sales shortly after Jim joined Baccarat. I didn’t know much about tabletop when Jim hired me. It was a crash course in all things tabletop and home, and I was lucky to have amazing people guiding me along the way as I cut my teeth. Understanding the people we were selling to, what the needs of the market were dictating, and how to brighten up any occasion with a beautiful place setting or a meaningful gift were all lessons learned and successes from Baccarat that will continue to be my core ethos in this new endeavor. What Jim, the team, and I were able to build at Baccarat was something special, and I look forward to working with his product vision, his passion, his taste level, and his undeniable pulse on the industry. The team building aspect of any business is critically important and something I know Jim, Mark, and I take pride in developing together. I’m looking forward to continuing the mission of encouraging people to set their tables, using what’s in the hutch and hasn’t been touched since it went on a wedding registry or since inheriting it from grandma, and then putting all, or at least most, in the dishwasher. I love tabletop. I loved watching my husband fall in love with tabletop when we started dating and the ability a table has to bring people together. Jim and Mark have always been very generous hosts with their dinner parties and welcoming people to their table, and I feel blessed to now officially have a seat at that table.
I’ve heard a lot about Jim and Mark’s amazing hosting talents (see page 66).
MARK BRASHEAR: Neither of us grew up with a lot of things. We’re kids from rural California, where hunting, logging, and fishing was popular. I was motivated by fear and not having things, so I studied finance and set my professional life to working hard and achieving things. As we mature, we often broaden our scope. Jim and I have always enjoyed entertaining and that went hand in hand with our love for tableware. We’ve been collecting for 30 years. We enjoy setting the table. Jim is very creative, always doing unexpected things to make the table pop. We’re always challenging each other. That’s part of our secret sauce. We have a work compatibility. We work hard and want to do the right thing. We share values, and that’s why our personal relationship has endured this long. We have the ability to authentically communicate what we want.
JIM SHREVE: I didn’t grow up with a lot of stuff. This extreme of having beautiful things wasn’t part of my childhood. Mark and I have had so many great experiences around a table. People remember how you make them feel, and we want to be part of a business that brings joy and desirability to a broader audience. We’re creative thinkers, and the brands will represent that.
MARK BRASHEAR: We use tabletop and entertaining as an opportunity to facilitate diverse groups of people to one table for an experience. We may not necessarily agree philosophically, but we get rich dialogues which we feel our world needs more than ever. Breaking bread and sharing ideas is something that’s always been important to us; not necessarily agreeing, but taking the time to listen and learn. We want to do our part to create that ritual where people look forward to doing those things; to provide a venue for learning things which makes everyone richer.
SALLY BURNSIDE: The power of setting a table, whether it’s just me, my husband, and our toddler eating soup dumplings on a Monday night or a bursting holiday dinner table is something that captured my heart in my career in tabletop. My mom was always setting a table ,so I guess it was in my blood early on, hosting tea parties on grandma’s china. The traditions continue, and I cannot wait to see this new endeavor instill connection, celebration, comfort, and cheer on so many tables and in so many homes. I’ve always said what’s most important to me is doing good business with good people. We are stepping into so much good already and I look forward to continuing in that direction. I’m also hoping to lead a best in class sales organization, representing lines that I love and believe in and, ultimately, bringing joy around the table to many homes.
Well, you couldn’t have chosen a better operation to be the catalyst. DeVine Corp. has established itself over the last three decades as a purveyor of luxury European brands. Tim, I met you when you were a Waterford exec in the late ’80s. How did the decision to start DeVine Corp. come about? TIM DEVINE: It was out of necessity. I was released from employment at Waterford during one of their many transitions. I was very unhappy there; they gave me the kick-start I needed. I made a conscious decision to start my own company. It was time to work for myself. I saw a niche on the high end where I had experience. I thought I could be a conduit for high-end European manufacturers to come to the U.S. and have someone represent them. I sought companies too small to have their own wholly-owned subsidiaries, about $4 million in sales; brands competing for the same consumer dollars but appealing to different audiences. I took ownership of all inventory; I set up the sales force and distribution to retailers so manufacturers could reach more accounts than they ever could on their own. I researched companies and went to trade fairs in Frankfurt and Paris. We started with Tipperary Crystal, and in short order, signed with Raynaud, Ercuis, and Anna Weatherly, which has probably been my favorite brand since we built that business from scratch to the number one tabletop brand at Neiman Marcus. We were off and running that first year. The concept made sense, and as I started selling the concept, there was a readiness to hear what I was saying.
I remember thinking that your business model made perfect sense, and I couldn’t understand why this wasn’t done previously. TIM DEVINE: Nothing is ever that easy, but it was a good idea. I was also never reliant on any one brand, and that was smart. We’ve had about 20 brands over the last 32 years; now we’re down to nine. I’ve turned away a lot more than I took in. When I lost Raynaud and Ercuis to Rosenthal, after Sambonet acquired those brands, that was difficult. Raynaud and Ercuis were my first loves, and it was sad to see them go after 25 years. It took a while to bring that volume back. Jaune de Chrome had a long run with us, but they went in and out of bankruptcy. Other companies weren’t contributing enough. Some brands I built into big entities, like Cardew Teapots and Poole Pottery. More recently, we added acrylic glassware with Mario Luca Giusti, which is our fastest-growing brand; acrylic was anathema to me in the past, but it’s the best in its category, something that’s important to us. We have been profitable every year, save one: the first year going into COVID. We’ve always had a solid bottom line and a lot of nice relationships with steady brands like Couzon, Varga, and Alberto Pinto. I have a soft spot in my heart for atelier businesses like these, which our customers may wait longer for delivery, and that’s aggravating, but the product is so special. The most brands we had at a time was 15, just a few years ago. Our strongest period was in the late ’90s, but we had our longest success from 2009 to 2016. We took a little dip after that but came back strongly in 2021. Last year was a challenge.
I’m excited by the possibility of new brands joining the fold. JIM SHREVE: We are too. We had an invigorating trip to Ambiente, Paris, and London. The future of the luxury tableware industry looks bright. We have great opportunities to add brands and cover more categories as we expand our brand portfolio. We plan to remain luxury, more elevated, and communicate the importance of taking care of ourselves at home.
Which you did so well at Baccarat. JIM SHREVE: My first week there, we started the Baccarat Everyday marketing campaign. Mark and I use our good tableware every day. We don’t save anything for a special occasion.
MARK BRASHEAR: We’ve benefited from lessons learned in apparel. Interpreting that into tableware, we’re going to have a lot more tools in our box to show people using the things they have and adding little pieces here and there to create special moments.
JIM SHREVE: This is about life, not just tableware. This is about home and enjoying the moments we have, and our brands will reflect that. The greatest thing about this industry is the passion. Tim, clearly, has a love for the brands he works with. It’s part of his DNA. We love his brands too and have had most of them in our home for years.
MARK BRASHEAR: We’re greatly drawn to Tim’s integrity, his experience, his knowledge, and his candor. He’s very forward thinking and clear in his communication. As I learn about the brands, I ask rudimentary questions, and he’s been patient, diligent, and thorough in his responses. We’re grateful for the opportunity. The kismet that brought us together will provide a great runway for the next part of the business. There are many good assets. We want to take them, learn from them, and enhance them. It’s amazing the culture and the team Tim has hired and retained. There’s a lot of capital and talent that we feel fortunate to inherit.
What will you miss most? TIM DEVINE: The people. Half my friendships are from this industry. And I’ve enjoyed the products I fell into. The industry’s been good to me and my family. I won’t miss the day-to-day though. I used to travel all the time around the country. I don’t feel like doing that anymore. I still do Atlanta and Dallas and I’m always rooting around Paris and Ambiente for new opportunities, but I’ll be happy to give that up. There’s not much joy these days in getting on an airplane unless Sara and I are going to our home in Naples, Florida. [Sara DeVine, Tim’s wife, is a longtime tabletop rep.]
Were there categories you tried which didn’t find success? TIM DEVINE: Casual dinnerware was always tricky. We had Poole Pottery for five years, and it could have stayed successful, but they had their own financial difficulties. Royal Crown Derby tried to be casual, but we only had success with their formal designs. They’ve been the easiest brand to work with; so professional, so responsive, so reliable. They know their business and they know who they are; they don’t swing outside of their lane. More recently, we found success with casual glass, like Memento. I’ve always been very hands-on and have a strong pulse on the day-to-day. My business is driven by special orders, so I can tell in real time what’s going on in the stores. Over the years, Neiman Marcus has been very good to me. So has Bloomingdale’s. Michael C. Fina was incredible. When they closed, I cried for a week; they were a powerhouse in this business. One of my favorite customers is Scully and Scully, always a big supporter of my brands. The Northeast remains a very strong region for us.
................................ The triumvirate leading DeVine Corp. into a new era is Jim Shreve, Sally Burnside, and Mark Brashear. “The opportunity to join forces in business, marrying Mark’s leadership, Jim's product vision, and my passion for sales was an easy decision to make,” says Burnside.“I’m looking forward to the challenge: learning new product, meeting new people, and becoming a partner in a business are all invigorating and inspiring me daily”.
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What have been your biggest mistakes? TIM DEVINE: There have been many. One that comes to mind is not figuring out a way to maintain the J.L Coquet and Jaune de Chrome business. I might have found a way to live with lower margins, and perhaps we would have found our way to the other side. I don’t think I made any crippling mistakes; maybe holding on to my IBM system too long. I’m not a techie, but I recognized the need from the beginning to have a good system, and from the get-go I acquired the same IBM system that Waterford Wedgwood used, which was tailor-made for the industry. I paid a pretty penny, which is probably why I held on to it a bit too long.
You were one of the first to partner with Bridge, to take the selling of your brands online. TIM DEVINE: We were trying to figure out what we wanted to be on the web. I was dead set against selling on our website and competing with our retailers. I wanted an informational site so customers could move away from printed materials to their screens. We talked to Jason [Jason Solarek, the founder of Bridge, an e-commerce site tailored for independent store selling] who helped us develop our website to do what we wanted. That business works very well for us.
As the transition is well underway, what are your greatest initial challenges?
JIM SHREVE: We’re not too worried. We know most of the retailers and the brands. We don’t look at this as a challenge as much as an opportunity, a huge opportunity to grow the business. We took the second half of last year to understand the operation. We know our story and the value we bring. Now our mission is to get out and tell customers what we’re about. There’s a lot in our head that we want to accomplish.
MARK BRASHEAR: We’ve got a lot to do. Initially, we want to provide the tools that make it easy to deal with our team and brand. Tools that can showcase our brands more effectively and really boost the digital experience to teach and make it easier for our wholesale partners in a joyful and entertaining way in which they’ll want to learn from us. We have a huge opportunity with hospitality, and we’re anxious to capitalize on past retail connections.
TIM DEVINE: I can mind the home fires while they get out and work sales and marketing on the new and existing business, so they can grow and inject new products as soon as possible. In the meantime, there’s a steady and profitable business to see them through.
................................ Some of Shreve and Brashears’ recent table settings,above.“One of the greatest joys of a dinner party is bringing friends together for a relaxing experience of interesting conversation while enjoying a meal cooked by me on a table setting that inspires,” says Shreve. “It’s a moment when our devices are put aside and we just talk: sharing, celebrating, trusting, and laughing together is our goal.” Brashear agrees: “We enjoy infusing creative table settings to inspire others to develop an appreciation for the ‘Art de la Table’, which for us is truly magical. Bringing diverse groups of people together in our home for dinner parties is a passion we share. Creating a platform with opportunities to share ideas, perspectives, great food, and introduce our friends brings us much joy. We can all make a difference by encouraging sharing, understanding, and community.”
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So Tim, any advice to the new team?
TIM DEVINE: Mind your overhead; the profit is in the inventory. Make sure you’re buying what you’re selling; sounds simple, but most problems come down to inventory. I’m very meticulous about inventory. And pay everybody before you pay yourself. That always turned out well for me.
MARK BRASHEAR: The transition is going very well. We’re learning so much. I look forward to meeting all of our customers and building lasting relationships with them and our brand partners. We have exciting plans to build upon the foundation Tim has established and will work to foster a special organization of talented, passionate professionals who share a love for creating beautiful home entertaining experiences. Tim is coaching us along the way, which is a big help.
SALLY BURNSIDE: I’ve been selling crystal for so long, one of the first tasks at hand is educating myself about so many diverse product categories. As a lover of tabletop myself, I was already familiar with many of the lines and the presence that DeVine Corp. has in the industry, but I’m looking forward to the deep dive into so much diversification and having the opportunity to integrate it into my home and put my own spin on it. There are many new customers to meet. While Baccarat has a fantastic network of independent retailers, this new enterprise has an even broader reach, and one of my early endeavors will be getting to know them all. For me, it’s part of the excitement; it’s not fair to call it a challenge as much as it is the thrilling first step down a new road.
Does this new road hold promise? Does our industry have a future? TIM DEVINE: There will always be a tabletop industry. I’ve seen a lot of dumbing down and lookalike product and it may be a shrinking pie, but there will always be a pie and that means having the right product so you take business away from your competitors. There’s always a way to make money and always products you can sell. You just have to stay opportunistic because the industry we knew 25 years ago doesn’t exist today. It was fun back in the day when there were so many customers to sell and so many products to sell them. Those were the rock ’em, sock ’em days. I’m optimistic about the potential to do business. I’m a capitalist always looking for new opportunities, and there’s still opportunity in this industry.
JIM SHREVE: We agree. There’s a lot of demand from many channels and a great appreciation from consumers. Even while our lives have changed, people are starting to slow down at home. We’re experiencing more people wanting to celebrate at home. And unlike previous generations, people use their beautiful things much more often. In fact, one of the biggest challenges we face is finding craftsmen to keep up with the demands of handcrafted goods. But we’ll handle that as well as anything else that we come against. We’re very excited for the future of our company and this industry.